Should the Jews be Deported?
“Jeff Gates calls to push Israel back to 1948 borders as per UN decision, and eventually to dismantling of the Jewish state. Perhaps. The UN may demand re-creation of Jerusalem area special region under UN control (internationalizati on of Jerusalem ). This could be a good way to stop Israeli intransigence. But Jeff’s toying with idea of massive Jewish emigration from Israel/Palestine is not particularly attractive. Creation of a viable stable not-exclusively- Jewish but not-anti-Jewish Palestine for all its inhabitants (and that includes some six million Jews) is our task. Wet dreams of sending a stream of Jewish refugees up to Europe can backfire dreadfully. This is true for other writers who think that the Jews will run away – Serge Thion and John Kaminski. This is not likely to happen. A state for all, or One State is NOT the same as this dream of Palestine-without- Jews .”
Many readers responded, first of all, Jeff Gates who said he was misunderstood (see below). However, judging by other responses, the idea is attractive to some people. Serge Thion expressed it in his foreword to an Italian translation of my book, saying:
“the Palestinians, at the bottom, have only one claim, simple and legitimate: that the Jews will go back where they came from. Nobody among the Palestinians wants to them of evil, but nobody will ever accept their presence… Israel is a lost case, post-Zionists want to save the Jews however possible. To give up the old dream of two states, to struggle for a single, democratic state of "one man one vote" (old slogan of anti-apartheid in South Africa ) – and to maintain the politico-financial elites within this state, like in South Africa . This prospect does not appear realistic to me. The weight of the crimes committed by the Zionists is the Himalayas beside the hills Nazis. The river of blood that the Zionists made run since 1936 is too broad for them to cross it by saying " Let us forget all and become partners". The rejection is visceral, violent, everywhere in the Middle East . The Jews will have to leave, and the bloody Zionist venture will be "erased from the pages of times", as Imam Khomeiny said poetically.” End of quote.
In my view, this is erroneous and immoral approach. “Send them back” is a slogan of far right in Europe and the US ; there they want to send back blacks to Africa, Turks to Turkey , Mexicans to Mexico . Israeli extremists want to send Arabs back to Arabia . There is no end to this “sending back”. I do not say this is impossible, because it is possible and it was done in the past. The Spaniards had sent the Moors back to North Africa 700 years after their arrival, the Russians had sent Germans out of East Prussia nine hundred years after their takeover, the Algerians got rid of the French settlers hundred fifty years later, but the result was always unsuccessful. Even today Algeria is less developed and probably less democratic than it was before the mass flight of the European settlers. It is better to let people live where they live, while making them equal.
This is also the feeling on the ground. The Palestinians in Palestine do not express this wish of Thion “send Jews back”. Surely some people feel this way, but it is just natural, as natural as desire of some French people to send Arabs back. It is as natural as desire to become young again, you do not have to fight it – it is enough to understand that it is not going to happen.
Rivers of blood divided the people of France proper and those of Provence and Bretagne – but now they live peacefully together in one state. We are standing for One State ; that is the idea of letting people live together as equals, without expelling anybody. This is also an idea our friend Wendy Campbell does not understand: she dreams of getting rid of Jews in Palestine , as you’ll see in her letter below. She likes Gilad Atzmon, so do I – but he is not for any expulsion or mass flight either. Jews should be helped to get rid of their superiority complex, and afterwards they will become normal useful citizens. It would be better if they were to shed their imaginary Jewishness altogether, but this can wait, for it is said: “Do not wake up my beloved until she wakes up herself” (Song of Songs). This is also the Christian and Muslim attitude.
So, let us struggle for equality, and forget the wet dreams – rather, nightmares – of getting rid of millions of human beings.
Jeff Gates replied:
Thanks for those thoughts.
Note, however, that the commentary says nothing about anyone returning to Europe . Nor is there any suggestion that anyone "run away" -- just that those uncomfortable with political equality may find that their apartheid perspective is better suited for those venues (Argentina and Uganda) that the Zionists originally identified as attractive candidates for creating an exclusively Jewish state prior to targeting Palestine as their "homeland" (i.e., for a population that is overwhelmingly European/Khazar).
There were Jews living peacefully in Palestine long before the Zionists arrived. The commentary says nothing about a " Palestine-without- Jews ." What the commentary suggests is that extremism—whatever its source—is an enemy of democracy and a barrier to peace in a region that has endured the Zionist enterprise for far too long. To suggest that the colonial Zionist state seeks peace is to deny what the facts-on-the- ground have long confirmed: their expansionist agenda relies on serial well-timed crises. Peace would preclude what they moved to Palestine to accomplish.
As the U.S. enabled Zionist operatives to act out their extremism, it is the U.S. that should rightly take the lead in dismantling this enterprise by withdrawing its nation-state recognition. All else follows logically once the false veneer of legitimacy and "sovereignty" is lifted. If, as may well be the case, the U.S. is now too corrupted by this extremist phenomenon, then other nations must rightly portray the U.S. as part of the problem—and guilty by association. Hopefully other nations will grasp that it is not informed Americans who support this enterprise but those who have been influenced, co-opted and intimidated by the Israel lobby.
For the simple mathematics of how the lobby, in practical effect, repealed representative government, see How Israel Lobby Controls US For an explanation of how John McCain helped enable this repeal, see Introduction to Guilt By Association.
Learning from the debilitating U.S. experience of how this anti-democratic enterprise imbedded itself inside a democracy may well mean that European nations are not an appropriate (or welcoming) venue for re-establishing this experiment in exclusivity. Thus the suggestion that those who seek to reside in an exclusive enclave in which they can act out their exclusivity again look at the original locales that it found attractive.
The withdrawal of the appearance of nation-state legitimacy from this enterprise would provide comfort and long-overdue solace to moderate and secular Jews worldwide who have long been portrayed as guilty by their perceived association with an enterprise whose values, from the outset, were inconsistent with those of the faith tradition with which Zionism claims affiliation.
With the benefit of six decades-plus of hindsight, the consistency of the ZIonist enterprise's behavior suggests that Albert Einstein and his colleagues were correct in the fears they expressed in December 1948, urging that "all concerned not support this latest manifestation of fascism."
From Tom Mysiewicz
Some 300,000 Israeli illegal aliens are in the U.S. alone...probably more in Europe . The "Exodus" has begun Gates or no.
I fear one result of the one-state solution, although it will benefit most Mid Easterners, is that the Israeli nut-job hardliners will wind up in the U.S. with the illegals.
From Norm Kurland
I was once aligned with Jeff Gates when as a law student he contacted me and said he agreed with the vision, principles of economic justice and global ownership strategy of Louis Kelso. (See Kelso's economic philosophy at http://www.cesj. org/thirdway/ economicjustice/ ageoftherobot. html). For the last decade or so, Jeff and I have drifted in opposite directions on most policy issues and on basic principles of economic and social justice.
I totally agree with you that "Jeff’s toying with idea of massive Jewish emigration from Israel/Palestine is not particularly attractive. Creation of a viable stable not-exclusively- Jewish but not-anti-Jewish Palestine for all its inhabitants (and that includes some six million Jews) is our task." As you say, "A state for all, or One State is NOT the same as this dream of Palestine-without- Jews ."
In fact, since the 1970s I have been advocating a one-state Kelsonian solution that our branch of the global justice movement call "the Abraham Federation," a more inclusionary name with less emotional baggage than " Palestine " or " Israel ." (See http://www.cesj. org/homestead/ strategies/ regional- global/abrahamfe deration- nk.html) It may be necessary to start the Federation in Arab-majority Gaza and West Bank lands, turn it into a global model with the support of all nations seeking peace in the Middle East , and making it so attractive economically, politically and morally that a majority of Israeli citizens will demand to join the multicultural Federation. Former President of Lebanon Amil Gamayel once told me that that was his dream for Lebanon .
Do you think the time is ripe for these ideas to bring together a new coalition for peace among people of all faiths who want to make their homeland in the Holy Land ? I think that if this idea could penetrate through the wall of intellectual arrogance at the White House, President Obama might see the Abraham Federation as a viable alternative for heading off a nuclear holocaust launched by an increasingly desperate Israel .
In Peace, Prosperity and Freedom, only through Justice for all,
From Yousef Salem , California
Even though it may never happen, justice is still justice and should never be compromised. Real justice is to relocate the zionazi Jews to a different land altogether, even by force if necessary. They wrangled half of Palestine away from the Palestinians in 1948 with UN manipulations and coercions, then destroyed over 400 villages, massacred thousands of Arabs, stole the rest of the land, refuse to comply with scores of UN Resolutions and a plethora of international laws, slaughtered many thousands more, have became the worst war criminals in the history of this world, and tranformed Washington, Paris, Berlion, London, et alia, into other israeli occupied territories.
I say give them a part of upstate New York or all of Miami and buiold the same high fortress walls around them as seen in Palestine but get them out of Palestine. Can it be done? Consider what was done to Iraq , Afghanistan , Bosnia and elsewhere. It CAN be done. The question is who has the testicular fortitude and sufficient weaponry and manpower to do it - or impose extremely severe sanctions and travel restrictions.
Let those who desire to coexist peacefully live among themselves and share the fruits of the land remain. All others must pack their bags and leave. I was at a demonstration a few years ago and carried a large sign in a ralle and protest that displayed a swastika and the Mogen Daveed with the words "Do you see a difference?" beneath them. A woman told me that she was personally offended by the sign (a popular zionazi expression) and I told her that if she was Jew then she should be carrying it. That sign was carried from the Embaracdero all along Market Street in San Francisco to the UN Pavillion. Scores of observers gave me thumbs up. No one else expressed resentment. I believe that the world is ready for such an evacuation.
From Bedduin , Singapore
It is true that Israel will be no more in a little while.
You are on the ground - take a look on the population of Israel , the space the contain, the life they enjoy and you will still see a population in decline.
Israel has mostly depended on "conversions for number, but not inclusion"....
Soon they will run out of these gullible conversions of persons who finally see the truth when they get to Tel Aviv and are forced into all manner of vile situations, and to be reviled even more, by their hosts.
Then take a look at the Palestinians and see the conditions they live in the poverty they suffer and note the increasing population.. ..
In that there is sufficient information for people who reflect....
Add to that Muslims know from their book that there are several Challenges to the Jews/People who call themselves so.
To paraphrase one that says....:" If you say I/(GOD) selected you of all nations, then ask for death....."
Another challenge is to be a friend to the Muslim -
And another statement from the Muslim book is that I paraphrase again
"of all the people of the Book, you will find the Christians closest (in favours) to you and the Jews, the furthest..."
Which brings me to another real world situation... .
Anytime the Israelis have to fight their own wars, they will stop fighting.... .
Throughout recorded history, they are cowards.....
Remember their first sight of the Philistines. ...
They said - we will not fight them, there are giants in the land...
The rest is history - They wandered for another 40? years...
And David killed Goliath.....
It has not changed...
Their method - by deception you should wage war means you are not likely to meet him at high noon to eyeball him....
Be careful however of the dark....because this evil is like a black ant crawling over a black stone in the dead of the darkest night....
AMERICANS/OTHERS FIGHT FOR THEM
As long as there are those who can be fooled to fight for another - they will continue to cause mischief in the earth, and causing mischief in the earth is worst than murder of a single person, and murder of a single person is like killing the whole human race....
The world its hypocrisy has driven a people to become what they have become, all of us are guilty of the problems of the Palestinians ....
Ask one of those settlers to face a tank with stones.
From: Margit Alm, Melbourne , Australia
Like Israel Shamir and Jeff Gates I favour the One State solution. If this could be achieved, perhaps under the name of Canaan, as some time ago one reader on this list suggested (that reader had a dream), then a withdrawal to 1948 borders would not be necessary since both, modern Israel and today's Palestine would be one.
Jerusalem is a place of worship of all Abrahamic religions and that should be recognized. Likewise, if Muslims have Mecca and Roman Catholics have the Vatican , it may be only fair if religious Jews have a place of spirituality, eg the Wailing Wall. Hopefully the religions can find peace among themselves without inviting the UN as an umpire.
Sending Jews back to where they came from, is not a good idea, although some will undoubtedly volunteer to leave. Many have made their home in that part of the world and forced repatriation is not the answer. Nor is sending them to places, such as Argentine or Uganda , the answer. All these places have been taken by other people and are not empty.
Of course, there is still Birobidzhan, in Russia , the autonomous homeland given to Russian Jews in 1934 by Stalin. It never got really off the ground. Personally, I think that sounds like the Land of Milk and Honey with plenty of water (if only we in Australia would have some of that), agriculture, minerals, obviously a pretty landscape and far from the maddening crowd. But maybe the latter is the problem: from such a remote corner of the world one cannot "divide and conquer" easily.
I am quite certain that Zionism like Communism will run its course and will end, maybe sooner than many think. After all, the Berlin Wall came down sooner than most expected.
Margit Alm, Melbourne , Australia
From Peter Edel
I think it is very good that you underlined the idea that an Israel/Palestine ( Canaan ?) without Zionism is not the same as the same country without Jews. My point of view has always been that Jews have as much right to live there as Eskimo's have the right to live in the Gobi desert (as long the indigenous population isn't send away).
Actually Gilad Atzmon also describes a post-Israel without Jews in his book The Guide to the Perplexed.
From Mitch Medina, Kenya
The U.S. needs Israel as its Fort Apache in the Middle East, especially since the destruction of Iraq elevated Iran to regional superpower status. The Saudis will defend only their own financial interests, and none of the other pygmy states in the region can be considered a credible potential ally. Egypt is held in check by the combination of American bribery and Israeli armaments; it is questionable whether the bribery alone would achieve the desired objective.
Therefore, there is absolutely nothing that America or anybody else can do to moderate Israeli behavior. Theoretically, America could bend Israel to its will in 5 minutes by turning off the aid taps, but the threat to do so (much less the reality) is not credible in the face of the geopolitical realities of the Middle East. Obama can lecture all he likes (and he's doing a reasonably good job of it). But, in the end, he will not be listened to, and neither will anybody else. The state of Israel has already made the calculations set forth above, and is fully prepared to live and die by them, world opinion, democracy and universal human rights be damned.
A further problem with the neutering of Israel as a U.S. military outpost in the Middle East is the longer-range threat of Russian adventurism in the oil belt. As Brzezinski points out in his piece, Russia would have Western Europe by the throat if it gained control over the oil of the Middle East, perhaps through conventional weaponry, perhaps through an entente with a nuclear Iran .
It's worthwhile to remember that Russia started out as a duchy 50 miles across. It has been an expansionist, imperialist power for its entire history -- Tsarist, Soviet and post-Soviet. I for one do not hire the American President through my vote to dismantle our most important military outpost in the vague hope that people like Putin will play nice forever. How Carteresque! The Russian "warm water port" dream is still very much alive, with the added incentive now in the 21st Century that he who controls those warm water ports (if it is a great power) controls the world.
I despise both the ethos and the reality of the Jewish apartheid state. But the world would be a far more frightening place without it (as if it is not frightening enough already).
So, in the face of these unpleasant realities, what does one do? It is important that people like Shamir and his readers continue on the path of refusing to condone (or, worse yet, cheerlead for) Zionist injustices, as we are already doing. Perhaps we can even work some improvements in the situation at the margin. But let us not delude ourselves that any of our flower power solutions is the real thing. (The U.N.? The I.C.C.? Come on, get real.)
Maybe, just maybe, a solution to the Palestinian problem would alter the political complexion of the Middle East , and shortly thereafter, all parties would be content to sit under their own vine and fig tree. Personally, I doubt it, but suppose the point is conceded for the sake of the argument.
So who, then, among all of these beautiful, peace-loving nations, will stand against the inevitable Russian move to control the Middle East oil? Don't worry, somebody says. We have the American nuclear umbrella for that. Oh, I see. So we can have World War III instead of white phosphorus in Gaza . No thank you. I don't approve of white phosphorus, but I approve of World War III even less.
Mr. Gates, Israel will still be around in 5 years, and the day when it falls or is neutered will be the beginning of the end of the world. It will come soon enough, but not that soon.
Wendy Campbell to Adam Keller:
I left in the opinion of Israel Shamir at the top of the article with
regards to the statement that "(...) Toying with idea of massive Jewish
emigration from Israel/Palestine is not particularly attractive. Creation of a
viable stable not-exclusively- Jewish but not-anti-Jewish Palestine for all its inhabitants (and that
includes some six million Jews) is our task. Wet dreams of sending a stream of
Jewish refugees up to Europe can backfire
That is not my opinion nor is it Jeff Gates’s opinion, the author of the article about Israel falling in 5 years (YAY!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! )
I am in the habit of forwarding articles and opinions that don’t always agree with mine. In the e-mail I sent you, I agree with Jeff Gates, but not Israel Shamir. See, I’m not a fascist like you Zionists.
Adam Keller to Wendy Campbell
Yes. I am a real fascist - that's probably why the Israeli army felt they need to put me for a total of half a year in prison.
Yours, Adam Keller
P.S.: Israel Shamir is not a particular friend of mine, and I often disagree with him - but it was very good that you passed on this particular quotation of him.
Wendy Campbell to Adam Keller:
Dear Mr. Keller,
You are only a fascist-lite, not a heavy enough fascist for your Israeli Jewish brethren. That’s why they put you in jail for a half year. They expect you to be fully fascist like they are.
Lucky you, since you are only fascist-lite, I will sometimes communicate with you. I don’t bother with the fascist-heavy Zionist Jews. They are a complete waste of my time.
You, on the hand, I have some hope for, that I can convert you to the one truly humane one-democratic- state solution for Palestine-Israel.
I have hopes that you can feel fine living next door to Arab Muslim and Christian Palestinians, even right next to your apartment down the hall, in the same building. You can all attend Home Owner Association meetings together and work things out so it’s fair for everyone, not just Jews. I hope you can share that vision with me.
I’ve lived it, and I know it can happen for you too.
As for Israel Shamir, I am surprised at his sardonic take on the one-state-solution— and it does cast some doubt on him from my point of view, although I still think he is an excellent writer, and in general, we share many of the same views when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian situation.
Maybe you can shed some light on this: how is it that Israel Shamir is allowed to stay in Israel and never has had to serve any jail time for his anti-Zionism stance? I am beginning to think it is precisely because he is not totally for the one-state solution of Palestine-Israel, which I find to be a bit of a disappointment. I suppose I could ask him myself. In fact, perhaps I will also CC this letter to him. I think I will!
At any rate, my most favorite anti-Zionist Jewish Israeli activist is of course Gilad Atzmon. One never has to second guess with him. He is so totally right on. He is most certainly for the one-democratic- state solution.